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	<title>Comments on: To Derek Draper re: LabourList.org</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/01/26/to-derek-draper-re-labourlistorg/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/01/26/to-derek-draper-re-labourlistorg/</link>
	<description>Digital consultant, eBay expert, writer &#38; blogger.</description>
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		<title>By: Sue @ TameBay</title>
		<link>http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/01/26/to-derek-draper-re-labourlistorg/comment-page-1/#comment-40895</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue @ TameBay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/?p=804#comment-40895</guid>
		<description>And apropos of absolutely nothing at all...

posting &quot;I wish I hadn&#039;t bothered posting now&quot; in response to community member complaints is never, ever appropriate. However true it might be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And apropos of absolutely nothing at all&#8230;</p>
<p>posting &#8220;I wish I hadn&#8217;t bothered posting now&#8221; in response to community member complaints is never, ever appropriate. However true it might be.</p>
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		<title>By: board_surfer</title>
		<link>http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/01/26/to-derek-draper-re-labourlistorg/comment-page-1/#comment-40887</link>
		<dc:creator>board_surfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/?p=804#comment-40887</guid>
		<description>&quot;I have a right to a response in those circumstances, surely.&quot;

you don&#039;t, believe me you really don&#039;t

you have no &quot;right&quot; to a response under any circumstances.

it is nieve to think otherwise.

believe me I learned the hard way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I have a right to a response in those circumstances, surely.&#8221;</p>
<p>you don&#8217;t, believe me you really don&#8217;t</p>
<p>you have no &#8220;right&#8221; to a response under any circumstances.</p>
<p>it is nieve to think otherwise.</p>
<p>believe me I learned the hard way.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Ireland</title>
		<link>http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/01/26/to-derek-draper-re-labourlistorg/comment-page-1/#comment-40877</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Ireland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/?p=804#comment-40877</guid>
		<description>I have not received a fair hearing at LabourList; far from it.

I don&#039;t think I have confused a fair hearing with getting every single question answered with any kind of reply; in some circumstances, fair *questions* have been deleted outright.

The result in a case like this is a post that falsely gives the impression that it has been open to comment/challenge, when some challenges to any/all assertions by the author have instead been censored and not addressed in any way.

Draper recently took this one step further by openly challenging me to respond to a point, then refusing/deleting my every response to that challenge. Draper thereby created the illusion that nobody was able to counter him.

I have a right to a response in those circumstances, surely.

My concerns about things like outright censorship on that site have (unsurprisingly) not seen the light of day on that site. What opportunities I might have to be heard elsewhere, including on my own site, don&#039;t enter into it.

At no stage has Draper reached a point where it could be said that he has offered me a fair hearing. If anything, he has responded with (sometimes carefully veiled) personal attacks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not received a fair hearing at LabourList; far from it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I have confused a fair hearing with getting every single question answered with any kind of reply; in some circumstances, fair *questions* have been deleted outright.</p>
<p>The result in a case like this is a post that falsely gives the impression that it has been open to comment/challenge, when some challenges to any/all assertions by the author have instead been censored and not addressed in any way.</p>
<p>Draper recently took this one step further by openly challenging me to respond to a point, then refusing/deleting my every response to that challenge. Draper thereby created the illusion that nobody was able to counter him.</p>
<p>I have a right to a response in those circumstances, surely.</p>
<p>My concerns about things like outright censorship on that site have (unsurprisingly) not seen the light of day on that site. What opportunities I might have to be heard elsewhere, including on my own site, don&#8217;t enter into it.</p>
<p>At no stage has Draper reached a point where it could be said that he has offered me a fair hearing. If anything, he has responded with (sometimes carefully veiled) personal attacks.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/01/26/to-derek-draper-re-labourlistorg/comment-page-1/#comment-40875</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/?p=804#comment-40875</guid>
		<description>Tim,

Speaking objectively with a community manager&#039;s hat on, I think you&#039;ve had fair hearing. You have aired your views here, on the Guardian website, on your blog and on Labourlist. You&#039;re voice is ringing loud and clear through cyberspace: you haven&#039;t been gagged in any real sense (remember Nay Phone Latt).

I&#039;d say you confuse a fair hearing with a) getting every single question you pose answered b) getting substantive replies to each and every post. I reckon in a community like LabourList you have the right to post and the right to be heard. You don&#039;t have a right to response. 

I&#039;d agree that you have been poorly moderated. Deleting comments has clearly made you more dogged. On how you&#039;ve been treated by Derek Draper: I wouldn&#039;t have dealt with you in the same way. As I&#039;ve noted in the main post, his manner has sometimes been unfortunate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,</p>
<p>Speaking objectively with a community manager&#8217;s hat on, I think you&#8217;ve had fair hearing. You have aired your views here, on the Guardian website, on your blog and on Labourlist. You&#8217;re voice is ringing loud and clear through cyberspace: you haven&#8217;t been gagged in any real sense (remember Nay Phone Latt).</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say you confuse a fair hearing with a) getting every single question you pose answered b) getting substantive replies to each and every post. I reckon in a community like LabourList you have the right to post and the right to be heard. You don&#8217;t have a right to response. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d agree that you have been poorly moderated. Deleting comments has clearly made you more dogged. On how you&#8217;ve been treated by Derek Draper: I wouldn&#8217;t have dealt with you in the same way. As I&#8217;ve noted in the main post, his manner has sometimes been unfortunate.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Ireland</title>
		<link>http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/01/26/to-derek-draper-re-labourlistorg/comment-page-1/#comment-40874</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Ireland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/?p=804#comment-40874</guid>
		<description>Thank you.

Do you think I was granted a fair hearing at LabourList? Your post (specifically in the passage that also speaks of &#039;wankers&#039; and &#039;vendettas&#039;) suggests that I was, but it could just be a false impression given by proximity of these words to your kind mention of my website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>Do you think I was granted a fair hearing at LabourList? Your post (specifically in the passage that also speaks of &#8216;wankers&#8217; and &#8216;vendettas&#8217;) suggests that I was, but it could just be a false impression given by proximity of these words to your kind mention of my website.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/01/26/to-derek-draper-re-labourlistorg/comment-page-1/#comment-40873</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/?p=804#comment-40873</guid>
		<description>@Tim Ireland: post updated to include link to specific post as requested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tim Ireland: post updated to include link to specific post as requested.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynne</title>
		<link>http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/01/26/to-derek-draper-re-labourlistorg/comment-page-1/#comment-40871</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/?p=804#comment-40871</guid>
		<description>Damned good advice for life in general, Dan, not just for blogging.

I have taken all on board and will make studied politeness my watchword.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damned good advice for life in general, Dan, not just for blogging.</p>
<p>I have taken all on board and will make studied politeness my watchword.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Ireland</title>
		<link>http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/01/26/to-derek-draper-re-labourlistorg/comment-page-1/#comment-40869</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Ireland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/?p=804#comment-40869</guid>
		<description>If the bloggerheads case is a good one, and people are free to make up their own minds about that, why not link to the specific post(s)?

Draper is the wrong man for this job. His moderation style has matched his attitude throughout the exercise to date; selfish, deceitful, heavy-handed and mean-spirited.

Pointing this out to others who might also fall victim to this treatment and persisting at least until Draper stops lying outright about his position is not a vendetta.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the bloggerheads case is a good one, and people are free to make up their own minds about that, why not link to the specific post(s)?</p>
<p>Draper is the wrong man for this job. His moderation style has matched his attitude throughout the exercise to date; selfish, deceitful, heavy-handed and mean-spirited.</p>
<p>Pointing this out to others who might also fall victim to this treatment and persisting at least until Draper stops lying outright about his position is not a vendetta.</p>
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