Comments on: SCIP Digital Inclusion Event at Labour Conference http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/09/29/scip-digital-inclusion-event-at-labour-conference/ Digital consultant, eBay expert, writer & blogger. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:48:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: uberVU - social comments http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/09/29/scip-digital-inclusion-event-at-labour-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-41584 uberVU - social comments Sun, 25 Oct 2009 04:01:53 +0000 http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/?p=1463#comment-41584 <strong>Social comments and analytics for this post...</strong> This post was mentioned on Twitter by wilsondan: Bloggery: Some thoughts on SCIP Digital Inclusion Event at #lab09 last night. http://is.gd/3MKAY... Social comments and analytics for this post…

This post was mentioned on Twitter by wilsondan: Bloggery: Some thoughts on SCIP Digital Inclusion Event at #lab09 last night. http://is.gd/3MKAY...

]]> By: cyberdoyle http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/09/29/scip-digital-inclusion-event-at-labour-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-41582 cyberdoyle Sat, 24 Oct 2009 08:50:57 +0000 http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/?p=1463#comment-41582 We have evidence of children in rural areas getting detention because they haven't been able to download/upload homework to school because they can't get broadband where they live. The teachers don't believe them. They believe the telco/ofcom hype that this country has broadband to 99.6% of the population. We ask the RDAs for help. They too believe the hype and say it is not in their remit. We ask the government for help. They say ask the RDAs, its their job to help. We go round in circles, and nobody believes us. We build our own wireless networks to help our neighbours and now they want to tax them. All we need is access to fat fibre pipes in rural areas and we will build our own fibre networks and the community will own this last mile, freeing us from the tyranny of the copper cabal. Until policy makers realise how shoddy the current victorian infrastructure really is there is no hope for digital engagement. Throttling and capping are putting off the early adopters. Free and cheap ISPs are compounding the problem, because their charges from openreach are massive, so in order to give people cheap broadband they put too many on one card in the exchange - for example to pay for an 'up to 8meg' feed an isp charging £20 has to put £150 users on that feed. Bear in mind that streaming iPlayer uses half a meg. Therefore if more than 16 people do it at once then the other 100 and odd can't even access eGov sites... do the math... The telcos are milking the system without investing in the network. Until they stop working on the scarcity model and open up the pipes with fibre to the home this country is fighting a losing battle, and the price will be that our kids are left out and businesses disenfranchised in the global economy, which is now a digital economy. chris We have evidence of children in rural areas getting detention because they haven’t been able to download/upload homework to school because they can’t get broadband where they live. The teachers don’t believe them. They believe the telco/ofcom hype that this country has broadband to 99.6% of the population. We ask the RDAs for help. They too believe the hype and say it is not in their remit. We ask the government for help. They say ask the RDAs, its their job to help. We go round in circles, and nobody believes us. We build our own wireless networks to help our neighbours and now they want to tax them. All we need is access to fat fibre pipes in rural areas and we will build our own fibre networks and the community will own this last mile, freeing us from the tyranny of the copper cabal.
Until policy makers realise how shoddy the current victorian infrastructure really is there is no hope for digital engagement.
Throttling and capping are putting off the early adopters. Free and cheap ISPs are compounding the problem, because their charges from openreach are massive, so in order to give people cheap broadband they put too many on one card in the exchange – for example to pay for an ‘up to 8meg’ feed an isp charging £20 has to put £150 users on that feed. Bear in mind that streaming iPlayer uses half a meg. Therefore if more than 16 people do it at once then the other 100 and odd can’t even access eGov sites… do the math…
The telcos are milking the system without investing in the network. Until they stop working on the scarcity model and open up the pipes with fibre to the home this country is fighting a losing battle, and the price will be that our kids are left out and businesses disenfranchised in the global economy, which is now a digital economy.
chris

]]> By: Mark Walker http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/2009/09/29/scip-digital-inclusion-event-at-labour-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-41580 Mark Walker Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:15:53 +0000 http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/?p=1463#comment-41580 Hi Dan Thanks for the post - useful catch up and seems to me you've helped bring some focus to the questions, and started answering some of them. A couple of points I'd add: Can business pony up more? Someone mentioned a 'percent for inclusion' type project where companies donate say 1% of profit to a pot. There are other things business can offer but this may combine CSR interests with a need for non-Government resources to drive change Problems with pipes seem to be about market failure. So yes, maybe money but not only money, otherwise the same problem arises when the new technology becomes inadequate. More strategic roles for the BBC would still have to make practical sense on the ground. On a local level the BBC has played a positive role by raising the profile of the issues of getting online, providing materials to help people get online and provide a reason for people to get online. It also has a drop in centre on Queens Road and many people take their first steps online there. Yes let's assume some people won't get online - but there are lots of people who want to but can't. And it is useful to have a focus for this issue at a national level ie Martha Lane Fox otherwise the statistics can be picked to pieces and ignored. All sorts of people can waste untold amounts of money from all sectors - my point about the money we had was that it would have been smarter to spend the same amount over 3 years, not be governed by rules which required us to spend it in 12 months. For those people not used to working in the voluntary sector and being funded by grants it can be difficult to understand how frustrating that can be for us. And in case it wasn't clear we get 50% of our income from grants but the other half comes from selling services. I wasn't cheerful about wasting the money - I couldn't disguise how stupid I think the process was. Yes, schools and libraries need to be part of a whole picture, as do community centres, older people's centres, young people's centres, Big Issue offices, etc etc. The last time I saw that come together was in the early 2000s when UK Online encompassed libraries, businesses, community centres, BBC, etc. Then it was taken ver by UfI and slowly mouldered. I hope support for UK Online translates into a chance to make good what many many people consider to have been a monumentally wasted opportunity to address this issue in a much more joined up way. Does it matter who is in charge? I've seen Labour spend big budgets on big government programmes - including getting a share of the eGov billions it blew on all sorts of digital trophy projects. No matter who's in power no one can afford to do that again. I hope that means we can focus on what we know works - and we know a lot about that - and invest in programmes that build on existing resources and expertise to change things, especially at a local level, without prescription from on high. Thanks Mark Hi Dan

Thanks for the post – useful catch up and seems to me you’ve helped bring some focus to the questions, and started answering some of them. A couple of points I’d add:

Can business pony up more? Someone mentioned a ‘percent for inclusion’ type project where companies donate say 1% of profit to a pot. There are other things business can offer but this may combine CSR interests with a need for non-Government resources to drive change

Problems with pipes seem to be about market failure. So yes, maybe money but not only money, otherwise the same problem arises when the new technology becomes inadequate.

More strategic roles for the BBC would still have to make practical sense on the ground. On a local level the BBC has played a positive role by raising the profile of the issues of getting online, providing materials to help people get online and provide a reason for people to get online. It also has a drop in centre on Queens Road and many people take their first steps online there.

Yes let’s assume some people won’t get online – but there are lots of people who want to but can’t. And it is useful to have a focus for this issue at a national level ie Martha Lane Fox otherwise the statistics can be picked to pieces and ignored.

All sorts of people can waste untold amounts of money from all sectors – my point about the money we had was that it would have been smarter to spend the same amount over 3 years, not be governed by rules which required us to spend it in 12 months.

For those people not used to working in the voluntary sector and being funded by grants it can be difficult to understand how frustrating that can be for us. And in case it wasn’t clear we get 50% of our income from grants but the other half comes from selling services. I wasn’t cheerful about wasting the money – I couldn’t disguise how stupid I think the process was.

Yes, schools and libraries need to be part of a whole picture, as do community centres, older people’s centres, young people’s centres, Big Issue offices, etc etc. The last time I saw that come together was in the early 2000s when UK Online encompassed libraries, businesses, community centres, BBC, etc. Then it was taken ver by UfI and slowly mouldered.

I hope support for UK Online translates into a chance to make good what many many people consider to have been a monumentally wasted opportunity to address this issue in a much more joined up way.

Does it matter who is in charge? I’ve seen Labour spend big budgets on big government programmes – including getting a share of the eGov billions it blew on all sorts of digital trophy projects. No matter who’s in power no one can afford to do that again. I hope that means we can focus on what we know works – and we know a lot about that – and invest in programmes that build on existing resources and expertise to change things, especially at a local level, without prescription from on high.

Thanks

Mark

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